Reason on Facebook
Reason on Twitter
Reason on YouTube
Reason RSS
The first-ever debate between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, the first-ever debate between a woman and a black man for their party's nomination: This is, no hyperbole, the pivotal debate of the campaign so far. Polls clearly show Obama moving up, and a decent or knockout debate performance could put him in pole position for Feb. 5, a day when Hillary Clinton badly needs to run up the score. (At least four of the next six primaries—Louisiana, Maryland, DC, Virginia—lean to Obama.) A huge Obama gaffe or dead-on Clinton attack probably stops his momentum and saves Clinton's poll leads.
Then again, these things are hard to read. Last week the spin was that John Edwards won and Obama revealed that Bill Clinton "got inside his head." By Saturday Clinton was dealt his biggest humiliation in 10 years, and by Wednesday Edwards was out of the race.
It starts at 8 p.m. on CNN, and there may or may not be blogging here, but consider this an open thread.
Democratic Debate Thread: Celebrate Diversity!
Comments to "Democratic Debate Thread: Celebrate Diversity!":
Charles | January 31, 2008, 8:01pm | #
Ron Paul will get roughly the same amount of face time tonight as last night.Kolohe | January 31, 2008, 8:07pm | #
'the only rule that there are no rules' should invoke a drinking game rule.ed | January 31, 2008, 8:13pm | #
Spin, schmin.Anyone but Hillary. A rodent. A snail!
What's the worst that could happen?
inanimate carbon rod | January 31, 2008, 8:14pm | #
vote for me. I'm for change.Patrick | January 31, 2008, 8:15pm | #
Freeze interest rates for 5 years? Shockingly desperate ploy by Clinton. Which rates btw? Most rates are set by world markets.FWIW, would make more sense to lower rates to allow people to refinance.
GILMORE | January 31, 2008, 8:16pm | #
ed | January 31, 2008, 8:13pm | #Spin, schmin.
Anyone but Hillary. A rodent. A snail!
What's the worst that could happen?
She could win, maybe
Dirty Bird | January 31, 2008, 8:18pm | #
In honor of Tony Rezko's manly mustache, I say that ever time his name is mentioned, you reach in and give yourself a dirty sancheezyed | January 31, 2008, 8:25pm | #
Healthcare is a "responsibility" sayeth Madam Hillary.You owe your good health to The State.
Wow.
Any questions?
Mad Toothfish | January 31, 2008, 8:27pm | #
Clinton campaign motto: "Change is BACK!"Dirty Bird | January 31, 2008, 8:29pm | #
If Obama got elected and really carried out his pledge to meet Ahmedinajad, Castro, Chavez, and Kim Jong Il within a year, that would be pimp.ed | January 31, 2008, 8:31pm | #
The State must "cover" everyone, sayeth Conrade Hillary!We Americans are responsible for our neighbors!
From each, according to...well, you know the rest.
Mike Huckabee | January 31, 2008, 8:31pm | #
So you atheistic cosmotarians would rather have her than me for President.Mr. Nice Guy | January 31, 2008, 8:33pm | #
edThe police cover everyone don't they? And we are responsible for out neighbors in all having to pay for that police coverage, right?
Chris Potter | January 31, 2008, 8:33pm | #
Freeze interest rates for 5 years? Shockingly desperate ploy by Clinton. Which rates btw? Most rates are set by world markets.Think of all the property damage she could save by ordering the wind not to blow and the clouds not to rain.
Andrew Revard | January 31, 2008, 8:33pm | #
If you wish to have universal health care Hillary, I suggest you read some of Charles Murray's work. It accomplishes your goal, and while it may be an increase in government largesse, it eliminates much bureaucracy.Mad Toothfish | January 31, 2008, 8:35pm | #
We're going to invest money to get people to lose weight?Um... maybe we need to back up a step, here. How messed up is your culture when a sign of poverty is that you need a government program to stop you from eating so much?
Dirty Bird | January 31, 2008, 8:35pm | #
Andrew, are you talking about his book where he basically suggests a negative income tax (a rehash of a Milton Friedman idea, but a pretty intriguing one no lies)?Mr. Nice Guy | January 31, 2008, 8:35pm | #
It's bullshit to say the other 55 billion will come from better management and administrative pennypenching...That's an answer everyone gives about how to pay for this or that...Mad Toothfish | January 31, 2008, 8:36pm | #
The Charles Murray plan rocks.I was thinking the same thing when she meandered through her new plan. (I can't wait to see this flowchart...)
Adamness | January 31, 2008, 8:37pm | #
It's fun to listen to an Obama speech and feel all warm and fuzzy inside. It's a whole different story when you listen to his policies, and are shocked back into reality that's he's just another typical liberal.I got my absentee ballot today, and I'm more than happy voting for Ron Paul.
Hill will "pay" for socialist health schemes by "reigning in" Republican "failures" and applying them to "modernizing" Free Medicine For All!"
What happened to the anger and fighting we were promised? That's why I'm watching this damn debate.
Dirty Bird | January 31, 2008, 8:39pm | #
I love how liberal douche talk about how Obama inspires them so much when they'd be embarassed as all hell to say they get inspired by Joel Osteen or Tony Robbins or the Secret when they're basically pushing the same positive thinking message.Mr. Nice Guy | January 31, 2008, 8:39pm | #
I remember when every GOP candidate when asked how they would balance the budget (remember when they talked about that a lot?), what they would cut, they would always cop out and say: we will cut waste. It's a cop out when they did it, a cop out when HRC does it...stuartl | January 31, 2008, 8:39pm | #
How messed up is your culture when a sign of poverty is that you need a government program to stop you from eating so much?QFT
Mr. Nice Guy | January 31, 2008, 8:41pm | #
I dunno DB there is a bit of a difference between Joel Osteen and the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review...Mr. Nice Guy | January 31, 2008, 8:43pm | #
Immigrants and inner city blacks need not be opposed to each other. They can and should come together every Novemeber and vote for the Democrats ;)HRC's answer is better (both better substantively and will play better in the general election)
dodsworth | January 31, 2008, 8:44pm | #
Adamness:If you want frenzied anger and fighting just wait for Hillary and McCain show-down. Those two each have sticks so deep in their respective assess that it will be necessary to physically restrain them lest they claw out each others eyes.
Dirty Bird | January 31, 2008, 8:44pm | #
In terms of IQ maybe, but not in terms of just the basic power of positive thinking crap.And I'd say Joel's back story is just as American Dream style inspiring as Barack's. Going from country poor and stupid to rich and leading the biggest church in America is pretty pimp.
Kolohe | January 31, 2008, 8:47pm | #
well, a non-pandering answer on immigration from Hil, except I guess no immigrant learned English before the govt helped them. That is after all why I'm writing this in Polish and Lithuanian.Oh man...poor poor inexperienced Obama...I still favor a novice to a Queen.
Mr. Nice Guy | January 31, 2008, 8:47pm | #
All politicans try to come off insanely positive, that's what people want I guess...Why not just have the drivers lisences be mail order and let people order them directly from Guatemala...
I do hate how Wolf and the gang do this thing, where they have a quote, and they try to make the sparks fly over the quote. Let's talk policy (they did it last night too)
Mad Toothfish | January 31, 2008, 8:49pm | #
I think our present immigration policy is pretty decent. Not perfect, but so far we have a pathetically inept government agency that is totally unable to stop the flow of people who want to come here and help us create wealth.Ideally, we'd get the transaction costs down, and dial back the civil liberties abuses as well, but status quo beats "doing something" when "something" is probably bad.
Mr. Nice Guy | January 31, 2008, 8:49pm | #
HRC's answers have been better on this: Don't get on me for being realistic, I've been fighting the good fight for yearsKolohe | January 31, 2008, 8:49pm | #
wow, Hill mentioned JC and doesn't errupt in flames. I'm disappointed in him.Kolohe | January 31, 2008, 8:50pm | #
but that was a decent sound biteed | January 31, 2008, 8:50pm | #
Hill takes immigration policy "personally"!She knows what it means to pick tomatoes in the mean fields of south Florida.
Mad Toothfish | January 31, 2008, 8:51pm | #
McCain and Hillary are rumored to be great friends -- drinking buddies even. So, theoretically, the furious debates might not come off.I don't believe this, mind you. The Corleone.. er... CLINTON campaign machine won't be able to help itself if they go down a few points.
Mr. Nice Guy | January 31, 2008, 8:51pm | #
Didn't some org just name Obama the most liberal Senate voting record for this year? That smells like Kerry...WTF is up with the Dems not picking better candidates...dodsworth | January 31, 2008, 8:51pm | #
Mr. Nice Guy:They talked policy last night????? What debate were you watching? All I saw was an orchestrated and endless food fight between the Mad Bomber and Plastic Ken about whether Ken had ever dared to doubt the wisdom of the maginficant surge. When Ron Paul wanted to actually talk about the merits of the war itself, he was pushed to the side?
Chris Potter | January 31, 2008, 8:52pm | #
Those two each have sticks so deep in their respective assess that it will be necessary to physically restrain them lest they claw out each others eyes.In that case, I oppose physical restraint.
Mr. Nice Guy | January 31, 2008, 8:52pm | #
"McCain and Hillary are rumored to be great friends -- drinking buddies even."Were'nt Orrin Hatch and Ted Kennedy great friends? I think it's meaningless if people across the aisle are friends...You gotta work with these people, y'know
Mr. Nice Guy | January 31, 2008, 8:54pm | #
dodsworthI meant they did the same bullshit last night (when you said blank about McCain did you mean blank, if you looked in Putins eyes what would you see).
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 8:54pm | #
If we don't allow them to have drivers' licenses, how are they going to drive on the NAFTA Superhighway?Mad Toothfish | January 31, 2008, 8:54pm | #
Speaking of immigration.When the libertarian party uses the Statue of Liberty as its emblem, isn't it somewhat suspect when the so-called "libertarian" in the race wants to implicitly erase all of the words written underneath her?
Dirty Bird | January 31, 2008, 8:55pm | #
I would have loved to see one of them argue against drivers licenses for illegals on the grounds that we need less cars on the road to lower CO2 emissions. That would be mad hilariousNephilium | January 31, 2008, 8:55pm | #
Chris:Someone beat Hillary to that...
The Chinese will stop the rain.
Nephilium
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 8:56pm | #
edAnd they do cover us all so well, and so equally well at that!
The police cover everyone don't they? And we are responsible for out neighbors in all having to pay for that police coverage, right?
There is no right to police protection, as has been adjudicated many, many times.
And in countries with government health care, there is no right to health care, as they have adjucitated as well.
How can the Democrats (according to HRC anyway) support helping our neighbors to the south create more jobs, and continue to be against Free-Trade... or am I missing something (again)?
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 8:57pm | #
er-adjudicated.joe | January 31, 2008, 8:57pm | #
I don't think the debates have been very important. Nobody has won any of them, or lost any of them, big enough to have a major effect. Edwards' win last time was the biggest debate victory of the contest, but it didn't matter.Debates aren't Obama's best format - I think it throws him off his game to have to stop talking - so he and Hillary are pretty closely matched.
There won't be a big victory tonight, and Obama's numbers will keep rising. He hasn't been bringing them up with debates anyway.
Mad Toothfish | January 31, 2008, 8:58pm | #
Nice Guy:Yes, it could be (probably is) meaningless that they are buddies now (or were.)
As we see, Billy the Bully can't help himself. He's like Jack the Ripper when a campaign is going on. And on the other side, McCain is hypersensitive to criticism.
So, it won't take much and they'll be at it like Rock-Em, Sock-Em Robots.
But the conventional media wisdom, by way of an article in the Atlantic that I read about Hillary and a recent statement by McCain about her, is that they get along very well and look forward to being civil opponents.
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 8:58pm | #
For a Democrat, help has nothing to do with commerce. The only really real help is foreign aid.libertreee | January 31, 2008, 9:00pm | #
Obama--civil rights for those who have been hurt on the job? Was he affirmative action? I guess not being hired for a job is now a violation of your civil rights.Dirty Bird | January 31, 2008, 9:00pm | #
In my book, the fact that someone has "Community Organizer" on their resume is reason enough to vote against someone.ChrisO | January 31, 2008, 9:01pm | #
David Weigel: Watching this crap so you don't have to.That man deserves a medal.
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 9:03pm | #
She had a lot of responsibilities in the White House--1. Bimbo Alert
2. Travel Agency Expansion and Contraction
3. Health care backroom Chenyisms
4. Suicide hotline manager
That is why we love her so!
Patrick | January 31, 2008, 9:04pm | #
Obama will give an answer to a question that everyone knows polls badly, but does it where you respect he has an honest opinion. Clinton (and McCain and Romney for that matter) gives the answer that polls well everytime with polish.This woman on the panel asks dumb questions.
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 9:04pm | #
Obama disses Romney better than McCain!Mad Toothfish | January 31, 2008, 9:05pm | #
She was also involved in a noteworthy non-profit called Whitewater.joe | January 31, 2008, 9:05pm | #
I'll tell you, for someone who owns the party, she doesn't seem to be pulling many party heavy-weights behind her. Like Teddy.You in the back, what's so funny?
Dirty Bird | January 31, 2008, 9:06pm | #
Why didn't she mention her being on the Board of Wal-Mart as business experience?Sara the math maven | January 31, 2008, 9:09pm | #
Does it bother anyone else that they're always talking about "the past 8 years" with Bush? He was sworn in 7 years ago, I believe. Or am I crazy?Jon | January 31, 2008, 9:10pm | #
she could have mentioned all those cattle futures as evidence of business acumen.Adamness | January 31, 2008, 9:11pm | #
Does it bother anyone else that they're always talking about "the past 8 years" with Bush? He was sworn in 7 years ago, I believe. Or am I crazy?Feels like 8. Hell, it feels like a lot longer than that.
Andrew Revard | January 31, 2008, 9:15pm | #
I do not get the Democrats nor the GOP? If we must build a border fence, can we at least be wise about it? I am surprised none of the Republicans have picked up on this. Instead of the government building a fence, why not supplement these guys and save on waste?http://www.borderfenceproject.com/
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 9:16pm | #
Sounds like she had a good punch line there-have to admit she swatted that one pretty far. Whoever has to clean up after Bush has to wear a full haz mat suit...libertreee | January 31, 2008, 9:19pm | #
A delayed, year long withdrawal is probably the worst scenario to end the war.The best way is to just leave. Let the Iraquis have the fuel,food and other supplies not needed for the withdrawal. Take all the weapons and drive out. That would eliminate the doubt, and put the troops in the least danger.
as pissed as i get watching them, the republican debates are just more entertaining to watch then democrat ones. this is the most of a democrat one i've seen thus far i just get bored.
Dirty Bird | January 31, 2008, 9:23pm | #
Come on, Barack, call her an ignorant slut at least once, for old times sakereason isn't even doing any blog comments on this one tonight like they did last night so i'm not alone in finding the democrat debates boring. lol
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 9:24pm | #
A whole host of global threats, including Iraq-Barak...
WTF?
Ok now he is recovering somewhat. Can't be muddy, or cloudy.
Care for Iraqui civilians? OK,,
Now a strike force?
But not military bases? Don't worry about the Iranians, but keep a strike force in the area?
This may play out against a warmonger Republican, but RON PAUL will knock it down like a wrecking ball at a slumlord housing development.
damn why am i attracted to hillary tonight? is this the male version of women loving bastards kinda thing? nannystate THIS, hillary.
sv | January 31, 2008, 9:26pm | #
tj,you're attracted to power. weird, wrinkly power. naw but she does look better than usual tonight.
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 9:26pm | #
Good--hit that 100 years over and over. Give McCain a bloody nose before next Tuesday.Brokered Republican convention!
Say what you will about Robert Byrd, he was THE MAN in the debate over the Iraq War.
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 9:28pm | #
She consulted with Sen Byrd--Is he one of Romney's attorneys, as well?
RP would eat her up! (not out)
Paul lauds the days before the welfare state when unlimited legal immigration was possible, and those words on the statue of liberty were written well before socialism became popular in the United STates
i don't like her but she really isn't as ugly you're average hillary-hater would have you believe. for a politician of course. that's not saying much.
Mike Laursen | January 31, 2008, 9:31pm | #
Once again the notion that illegal immigrants are sucking up more in social services than they contribute in taxes has been debunked right in the pages of our own reason magazine.libertreee | January 31, 2008, 9:33pm | #
Good for Barrak! Talk about the dead and dying!OK the mission was flawed, but what about the policy?
Imminent threat...slippery slope there.
Equiped well
Exit strategy.
Will Colin Powel endorse the brother?
dude HOW many shots of actors in the crowd listening with deep expressions on their faces do we need to see before i vomit?
sv | January 31, 2008, 9:33pm | #
'coercive diplomacy'? sure.sv | January 31, 2008, 9:35pm | #
dude HOW many shots of actors in the crowd listening with deep expressions on their faces do we need to see before i vomit?hahahahha ... "I AM THINKING VERY VERY DEEPLY!"
KD | January 31, 2008, 9:35pm | #
Question from Wolf re the vote for the war:To HRC - Why can't you now say that vote was a mistake?
HRC - blah blah blah....
Truth - (in Clinton land/politics) - I/we never make mistakes...
dodsworth | January 31, 2008, 9:35pm | #
Who won? My dark side is pulling for Hillary.The Mad Bomber v. the Hildebeast would have to rank as high in terms of sheer spectacle as Predator v. Alien.
Mad Toothfish | January 31, 2008, 9:35pm | #
Gorak --He ran adverts against free trade and immigration in Michigan. CLEARLY appealing to the nativists on both of those counts.
I know what he says his "pure" position is. It sounds suspiciously like his weasel words regarding earmarks. His practical position is no different from Trancredo (immigrants) and Edwards (trade).
Libertarians care passionately about the free movement of people and capital and do whatever they can to accomplish that goal. It's hardly worth the trouble of being one if you don't.
And wouldn't letting that happen make us LESS socialist? Just askin'...
didn't see topher grace or that ugly betty chick at the republican debate did you? vote democrat kids. all you're friends are doin' it.
joe | January 31, 2008, 9:36pm | #
Finally, someone takes a shot at the CNN dorks."No, that's not what you hear me saying."
Die Wolf Die.
sv | January 31, 2008, 9:36pm | #
u can only get so far bashing bush in this debate, he ain't running.nice slap at wolf tho.. he's bein a dick
Andrew Revard | January 31, 2008, 9:36pm | #
As far as hot politicians go, Hillary is not up there. Sarah Palin has that cute Tina Fey look, and Marsha Blackburn works the milf angle.Jon | January 31, 2008, 9:38pm | #
"nice slap at wolf tho.. he's bein a dick"although not as much as Anderson Cooper yesterday.
why does rob reiner look like he's about to go to sleep every time the camera cuts to him? he looks like i did watching the bucket list.
Mad Toothfish | January 31, 2008, 9:39pm | #
This is as silly as a school board candidate debate. And it's CNN's fault.democrats want so badly to run against bush in this election. maybe they should have tried that in '04.
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 9:39pm | #
Rob Reiner is a fat bucket of sh**.See South Park and the anti smoking ban episodes.
Give Hill credit...she's a prepared technocrat...she has all the cliches at hand...she knows all the keywords...she's well versed in all the scripted responses...she actually believes what she says! She's a competent dictator. Given the alternatives, can we live with her for 4 or 8 years?
sv | January 31, 2008, 9:41pm | #
amen tj. they didnt have the balls in 04.Kolohe | January 31, 2008, 9:43pm | #
sax and violins!Mad Toothfish | January 31, 2008, 9:44pm | #
"Giving parents the tools..." Now this IS a bad school board debate.Does Obama favor censorship? Is he a censor? He dosn't seem to advovate it. He waffles.
hollywood to obama:"less sex and violence in our product? ahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahhaahhahahaaha....but we still love ya, borack you "inspire" us and all that"
The Wine Commonsewer | January 31, 2008, 9:46pm | #
Given the alternatives, can we live with her for 4 or 8 years?If you have rusty single edge blades and a hot bath, you can. Well, maybe not you, personally, but you won't care.
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 9:47pm | #
OMG the Legendary Hillary Cackle is revealed!We accept our new overlord, HLC of the mighty cackle!
Mad Toothfish | January 31, 2008, 9:47pm | #
"I want more boobs on tv. What will you do about that?"PERFECT! We need the "South Park Candidate Debate."
Funny how the "trashy culture" question got followed by the "How do you control Bill?" question.
KD | January 31, 2008, 9:47pm | #
Invest in technology to give parents the tools...oooh oooh (raises hand and bounces up and down) I know, I know.
Let's invent something that will turn the fucker off!!
Call it the power switch, the off/on switch, pulling the plug, whatever.
The Wine Commonsewer | January 31, 2008, 9:47pm | #
Rob Reiner is a fat bucket of sh**.no argument here.
SIV | January 31, 2008, 9:48pm | #
If we don't allow them to have drivers' licenses, how are they going to drive on the NAFTA Superhighway?The North American Union Highway Patrol will look the other way if you slip them a few Ameros.
t. j. | January 31, 2008, 9:48pm | #
hillary: "it's a lonely job in the white".....and i'll need all the male interns i can get to keep my company.sorry, that was a cheap one.
Dirty Bird | January 31, 2008, 9:48pm | #
You could do worse than Hillary if you're looking for some over-60 action.Here's the question:
Hillary or Chelsea?
Fluffy | January 31, 2008, 9:49pm | #
Better Hillary than McCain.Matt Welch | January 31, 2008, 9:49pm | #
"government is listening to them"....The Wine Commonsewer | January 31, 2008, 9:49pm | #
Power switch?How about dad yelling:
WTF? What the hell are you two watching? You've got thirty seconds to turn that shit off....
Actually, I'm prolly worse than the TV
The Wine Commonsewer | January 31, 2008, 9:51pm | #
Hillary or Chelsea?That isn't even a question. Chelsea has come into her own lately.
t. j. | January 31, 2008, 9:51pm | #
why do people think obama is such a great speaker? i don't get it. he's better then some sure but i don't think he's the revelation/breath of fresh air that people seem to think he is.ron paul on the other hand....
joe | January 31, 2008, 9:52pm | #
t. j.,Debates aren't his best medium. He's very, very good at giving a speech.
sv | January 31, 2008, 9:52pm | #
man this is almost TOO warm and fuzzy for me.... also i think that question about 'controlling bill' was just rudely put.sv | January 31, 2008, 9:53pm | #
whew that little hug thing was weird too. this is all sooo weird..hillary hugs and whispers in obama's ear with a smile:" you're not getting this from me,motherfucker&&*!@!)!)!)!)!)!)!){"
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 9:53pm | #
better Hillary than RomneyNot for me. Between those two, I would probably go for Romney.
I might consider Obama against ANY Republican except Ron Paul, of course.
Depends on how the entire debate goes.
eeewww they're hugging - like watching two bearded guys sucking face - eeeewwww
Dirty Bird | January 31, 2008, 9:54pm | #
That Hallmark Channel town hall plug was George Foreman-esque. I'm all about the shameless plug no lies.The Wine Commonsewer | January 31, 2008, 9:54pm | #
Hillary or Chelsea?Chelsea & St Hill
We report, you decide.
yeah, it is all too warm and fuzzy. i much prefer romney and mccain's icy fighting....seriously.
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 9:55pm | #
Of course, Joe, as you may expect, the LAST thing most Libs want is one party rule...Unless Ron Paul wins, then we will welcome it with boundless enthusiasm.
Divide and conquer!
If it's down to Hillary and either Mitt or McCain, I'm voting for the LP candidate. Obama would give me pause, but I'll probably still end up with the LP.
Adamness | January 31, 2008, 9:57pm | #
why did stevie wonder keep standing up btw?Cause he couldn't see.
The Wine Commonsewer | January 31, 2008, 9:57pm | #
Better Hillary than Romney.Anybody but
The Wine Commonsewer | January 31, 2008, 9:59pm | #
Cause he couldn't see.Jesus Chrysler, that was funny. You owe me a monitor. And you're a racist. And you're a blindist. And, you're going to jail for a violation of ADA.
it's just simply not human to smile and laugh as much as these people do.
I'm not a Democrat, but if I were, I'd be favoring the inexperienced idealist over the hardcore statist. Or would I? Perhaps I'm overestimating the Democrat party?
KD | January 31, 2008, 10:01pm | #
so TWCIf Hillary wins the dem nom, and McCain wins the rep nom, is Chelsea hotter than John?
(I just realized this is a completely meaningless post and I don't care.)
i think the democrats are going to lose this one too. that's my prediction.
joe | January 31, 2008, 10:01pm | #
Because he couldn't see. Lol.1 minute for that punchline, btw. Nice.
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 10:02pm | #
If it's down to Hillary and either Mitt or McCain, I'm voting for the LP candidate. Obama would give me pause, but I'll probably still end up with the LP.Yes, I feel your pain. I can't recall EVER voting Democrat. I was brought up strict Irish Catholic, so I like Kennedy, but I was too young to vote.
My Dad was Republican, my Mom Democrat. I have been third party all my life. I voted Peace and Freedom in the 1960's after I turned 18. Go Eldrige Cleaver! I didn't vote for a while, then I voted for Reagan. Since 1988 I have been strictly Libertarian. But, now i am a RP Republican, hoping that finally we libs can realy have an impact.
I may vote LP again. We need to see how this plays out.
If we can't laugh at blind people anymore, this isn't the country I grew up in.
Obama wins immigration and Iraq. Health care is a draw. Obama just won himself the nomination.
KD | January 31, 2008, 10:05pm | #
I'm done - going to go watch the Military Channel now, they are doing the Top 10 Combat rifles and I want to see where/if the Lee-Enfields show up.Does that make me a war-mongering whatever?
Cesar | January 31, 2008, 10:05pm | #
Hah. I have a less morbid strategy in the case of Clinton vs. McCain.
If you have rusty single edge blades and a hot bath, you can. Well, maybe not you, personally, but you won't care.
Vote for a third party. ANY third party. It will be the LP for me, but if your socialist friend wants to vote for the Workers Labor Party USA, go ahead. The idea is to deprive any candidate of getting over 50% so at least they can't claim a "mandate".
seriously hillary's immigration plan is almost EXACTLY like rudy's plan i heard from an earlier republican debate.
sv | January 31, 2008, 10:07pm | #
"Does that make me a war-mongering whatever?"no i think it just makes you a normal dude.
unless you're a girl... then it makes you hot.
libertreee | January 31, 2008, 10:10pm | #
Obama wins immigration and Iraq. Health care is a draw. Obama just won himself the nomination.We can only hope.
Then if RP gets the Republican nomination, at least we will have a choice between very good and not so damn bad, provided we have a split Congress.
Isn't that the most we can hope for?
Is such
i think cnn just really just wanted these 2 debates to be between 2 candidates. unfortunately, huckabee and paul had the nerve to show up last night.
Brian Courts | January 31, 2008, 10:13pm | #
Does it bother anyone else that they're always talking about "the past 8 years" with Bush? He was sworn in 7 years ago, I believe. Or am I crazy?Yes Sara, you're right, it was only seven years ago... but of course, you might still be crazy. :)
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | January 31, 2008, 10:15pm | #
If it comes down to Hillary versus McCain, I'm sitting this one out....oh wait, I'm sitting this one and all the other ones out regardless. Have fun voting suckers!
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | January 31, 2008, 10:20pm | #
sv:"Does that make me a war-mongering whatever?"No, sv; sorry. Liking Star Trek is what makes a girl hot.
no i think it just makes you a normal dude.
unless you're a girl... then it makes you hot.
Dirty Bird | January 31, 2008, 10:20pm | #
No lies, I vote because I find it fun, even though I know the odds of my having an effect are superminiscule. Then again, I've never faced a line to vote, and I probably wouldn't wait longer than 5 mins or so.yeah, i'm gonna vote in the primaries but i doubt i'll vote in the main election if it's hillary/mccain.
KD | January 31, 2008, 10:29pm | #
...unless you're a girl... then it makes you hot.Couldn't I be hot even if I am a dude?
No, sv; sorry. Liking Star Trek is what makes a girl hot.
In real life I have one of those non-gender specific names, and when folks read/hear my name, I am often assumed to be a particular gender. So if you wish, you may insert the face and body of your own favored or preferred gender and imagine he/she/me fondling a favorite rifle while sitting on the couch in my Vulcan ears. Make it so!! (or does the original Star Trek only count?)
FYI the Top 10 Combat Rifles is at the half way commercial break and no Lee-Enfields yet. Good sign if it is in the top half - bad sign if it doesn't show up. (I didn't agree with their Top Ten Fighter planes, so I could find myself in the same situation)
why did hillary say earlier "you just have to look at us both to see that WE are change. we're gonna change this country" in regards to her and either or obama being a better choice then the republicans? what's that that supposed to mean "you just have to look at us"?
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | January 31, 2008, 10:30pm | #
No (actual) insult intended to those of you who vote. However, I will seriously be sleeping in for both the Primary and the General this and all other years. (Actually, I'll be going to work, which is less fun than sleeping in, but I get money, which is more fun than voting!)This is unless Puffy tells me otherwise.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | January 31, 2008, 10:32pm | #
KD,First of all, you are on the internet, so unfortunately, the default assumption is that you are a man posing as a woman.
Second, original Star Trek is best, but Next Generation is good as well.
The Wine Commonsewer | January 31, 2008, 10:33pm | #
Vote for a third party.but I'll probably still end up with the LP.
After RP loses I will vote LP. I refuse, once again, to vote for someone who promises to gut shot me so as to avoid a guy who, if elected, promises to stab me in the eye.
The Wine Commonsewer | January 31, 2008, 10:35pm | #
Chelsea hotter than John?Well, I'm going with Chelsea.
Pete Townshend OTOH.....
Dirty Frank | January 31, 2008, 10:35pm | #
FYI the Top 10 Combat Rifles is at the half way commercial break and no Lee-Enfields yet. Good sign if it is in the top half - bad sign if it doesn't show up.My crystal ball says... #3
The Wine Commonsewer | January 31, 2008, 10:36pm | #
If we can't laugh at blind people anymore, this isn't the country I grew up in.What did Helen Keller do when she was pushed off the cliff?
The Wine Commonsewer | January 31, 2008, 10:36pm | #
Screamed her hands off!Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | January 31, 2008, 10:37pm | #
TWC:I refuse, once again, to vote for someone who promises to gut shot me so as to avoid a guy who, if elected, promises to stab me in the eye.Shake them titties when you vote bitch!
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | January 31, 2008, 10:38pm | #
No slight intended against Helen Keller.Chris Potter | January 31, 2008, 10:44pm | #
KD:In real life I have one of those non-gender specific names,
I'm guessing "Kelly".
-- fellow gender-ambiguous name sufferer
The Wine Commonsewer | January 31, 2008, 10:48pm | #
I dated a girl named Chris once. Got a leftie friend named Chris. At one time I thought my friend Chris was masquerading under the pseudonym of JOE here at H&R.alisa | January 31, 2008, 10:51pm | #
Leslie -- best unisex name ever. Also Wolf Blitzer's real first name. I kind of wish he had the guts to go on TV as "Leslie Blitzer."Dirty Frank | January 31, 2008, 10:52pm | #
Chelsea hotter than John?Uh yeah...
I'd say so.
I'd hit that... then again, better do it soon 'cause she's turning 28 at the end of the month which is gettin' kinda old.
The Wine Commonsewer | January 31, 2008, 10:53pm | #
I dated three chicks named Leslie. All blonds. Well, maybe only two, the other Leslie was a little lukewarm.Roger | January 31, 2008, 10:57pm | #
Yech, Chelsea is a dog. Put a bag over her head maybe, for crying out loud. Looks to have a terrible case of bruxism too.Mike Doughty | January 31, 2008, 10:58pm | #
I dated three chicks named Leslie.I went to school with 27 Jennifers.
Regarding Marsha Blackburn, she is one of the the most stupid politicians--male or female--I've ever heard.
KD | January 31, 2008, 11:06pm | #
the default assumption is that you are a man posing as a woman.... nope... I am a man assumed (from my name) to be a woman
My crystal ball says... #3
Frank: take care of that crystal ball! I'll be in touch later about some investments. Lee-Enfield SMLE comes in at #3, M-16 is #2, and AK-47 tops the list.
I'm guessing "Kelly".
Close but no cigar (oops should I be saying that on a list that includes the name Clinton...?)
Actually its Kerry and the first girl I ever fell for (age 10) was named Kerry and I fell for her only because of her name...
Closest I ever came to another non-gender specific name relationship was with a Sandra, who occasionally let me call her Sandy.
TWC: I dated three chicks named Leslie. All blonds. Well, maybe only two, the other Leslie was a little lukewarm.
At the same time? Must have been confusing. And forgive me but I don't get the difference between blond and lukewarm.
KD | January 31, 2008, 11:08pm | #
I don't get the difference between blond and lukewarm.That should read "the difference between a blond and a lukewarm...
t. j. | January 31, 2008, 11:08pm | #
i've fondled 2 jessies...cool points?yeah...mmm...hillary....i bet she's crazy in bed. total pilf.
BTW I think Clinton won tonight. Obama was a bit of a wuss and didn't go after her to really stake out a difference.
alisa | January 31, 2008, 11:14pm | #
I went to school with three Priyankas. All in the same biology class.alisa | January 31, 2008, 11:19pm | #
Right. The debate.I don't think either won, really; they weren't disagreeing very much, just restating talking points. A "civil" debate, as the commentators call it. Clinton was more willing to get into policy distinctions, but not much.
joe | January 31, 2008, 11:39pm | #
Helen Keller became a left-wing social justice activist.Go Helen Keller! She's not your teddy bear, either.
Brian Courts | January 31, 2008, 11:42pm | #
I dated three chicks named Leslie. All blonds. Well, maybe only twoMaybe only two were what? blonds? Named Leslie? Chicks? I don't get it... :)
Brian Courts | January 31, 2008, 11:51pm | #
I don't think either won, really;Then isn't that a win for Clinton? You can afford a draw when you're the front-runner, but if you're playing catch up you really need a clear win.
I didn't watch it so I have no opinion on whether or not it was really a draw, but if it wasn't a clear win for Obama that sounds like a good sign for Clinton.
Cesar | January 31, 2008, 11:52pm | #
Exactly how I see it. Clinton won.
Then isn't that a win for Clinton? You can afford a draw when you're the front-runner, but if you're playing catch up you really need a clear win.
Jose Ortega y Gasset | February 1, 2008, 12:15am | #
Clinton's faux tears have made a bigger impact than all of her debates laid end to end.stephen the goldberger | February 1, 2008, 12:15am | #
why did hillary say earlier "you just have to look at us both to see that WE are change. we're gonna change this country" in regards to her and either or obama being a better choice then the republicans? what's that that supposed to mean "you just have to look at us"?This was probably meant to be a comment that Hillary is a woman and Obama is half-black. Indicating that the "white male patriarchy" will come to an end if either is elected.
KD | February 1, 2008, 12:28am | #
why did hillary say earlier "you just have to look at us both to see that WE are change. we're gonna change this country" in regards to her and either or obama being a better choice then the republicans? what's that that supposed to mean "you just have to look at us"?This was probably meant to be a comment that Hillary is a woman and Obama is half-black. Indicating that the "white male patriarchy" will come to an end if either is elected.
That was my take too.
cause their vaginas and blackness make a sharp distinction for foreign policy and the economy.
LevStrauss | February 1, 2008, 12:41am | #
Now I think I understand collectivists. If you're dumb enough to be "inspired" by Obama's flowery rhetoric then you better not depend on yourself to survive. That is why Obama is too smart for his rhetoric but very smart in using it. You never go broke underestimating the stupidity of the American people.KD | February 1, 2008, 1:09am | #
cause their vaginas and blackness make a sharp distinction for foreign policy and the economy.And by the way, there's icing on the cake - they are not George W Bush, nor even Republicans.
The Wine Commonsewer | February 1, 2008, 1:26am | #
I went to school with 27 Jennifers.half the girls I ever knew were named Debbie. The crazy one, the ice skater, and the only one that could have been a Mrs TWC.
The Wine Commonsewer | February 1, 2008, 1:29am | #
At the same time? Must have been confusing. And forgive me but I don't get the difference between blond and lukewarm.No. No. Lukewarm means no sack time.
The Wine Commonsewer | February 1, 2008, 1:31am | #
Maybe only two were what? blonds? Named Leslie? Chicks?no. yes. yes.
Bingo | February 1, 2008, 2:19am | #
I didn't read most of this discussion, can someone post a summary please?Ebeneezer Scrooge | February 1, 2008, 3:38am | #
Summary: whoever they nominate is going to really suck the big one.Questions?
jackanapestarian | February 1, 2008, 8:09am | #
And Hillary has massive thighs.Women Wifout Teef fo' Edwards | February 1, 2008, 8:37am | #
Ah sure am peeved that Edwards is out. He was purty. And he would have given me some nice, shiny objects...er, "teef", fo' me to stare at all day.alisa | February 1, 2008, 8:59am | #
Obama's gaining on Clinton nationally. So while she assumes she's the frontrunner, he seems to be assuming he'll overtake her soon, so both of them are coasting. She's a bit of a better debater, though; Obama tends to lapse into speech-mode.She doesn't assume she's the frontrunner. She's seen how this works by now - he catches up to her as the various election days approach and maybe catches her. Double digit leads even two weeks or ten days out don't mean anything.
Someone Who Doesn't Want to Lose His Job | February 1, 2008, 10:15am | #
and a 3 point lead certainly can't be assumed to last.Gilbert Martin | February 1, 2008, 11:07am | #
"you just have to look at us both to see that WE are change. we're gonna change this country"Yeah - change it into Cuba
Herman the German | February 1, 2008, 11:12am | #
Hillary is trying to steal Obama's thunder about change, but the only change Hillary represents is a change back to the old soap opera we were subjected to for 8 years in the 90's.
